but in that period, the idea that -- >> okay. >> the united states and the soviet union would have a general nuclear exchange over differences, say, regarding berlin or cuba was to some degree a bluff. but it was something that rested, i think, on a hard-nosed understanding that the soviets did not, in the final analysis, want war, nor did we. and this bluff reinforced a status quo. it was invoked in berlin. where the apples have fallen. >> i get the point. i think about ike, i think about him as humble and how can a guy from kansas be where i am at right now and some things i really think are great about that guy and you're doing what david did for john adams. >> i hope so. >> david eisenhower, evan thomas, the new book is called "ike's bluff." post world war ii history, it's the best. anyway, we'll be right back. okay, now here's our holiday gift list. aww, not the mall. well, i'll do the shopping... if you do the shipping.